Official Luthiers Forum!

Has anybody used the circle cutting jig for LMI? It looks good but is rather expensive to order on a whim.

circle/rosette cutting jig

If anyone knows of a better jig, please let me know as I intend to order one soon.

Thanks, Steve Brown

Steve,

I have heard that the Bishop Cochran is really, really nice. I do not have one, but when I am in the market, I will check it out for sure. I think you might want to have a look.

Bishop Cochran Base.

Jeff

when my ancient cylindrical dremel died several years ago i had to buy something quick and settled on the cochran base. it is an excellent tool.

it is only let down by the rubber bushed bearings of current dremels. he has since offered the machine with clamp plates to take different machines, i.e. foredom and b&d i think. while i haven't tried one i have read that the b&d has much better bearings, and it is about twice as powerful as the dremel.

if he had had the base for the p-c 310 in production at the time i would have bought it instead. i already had both motors. may still buy the 310 base as well.

michael mcclain

Thanks, I haven't yet bought a Dremel so I am not locked in. I'll check out all the possibilities. I think Ryobi has one too.

Regards, Steve

I have and know John Mayes has one. It is very nice and once setup, it cut the rosette channel very clean and quick. Operative term is "once set up" It is not that fun a job, and they might as well not put in directions as they aren't very good and leaves you confused. I after several attempts and test cuts (need alot of those) I got is set. If you change size of channel or what want, you of course start over (once know how to set it up not to bad other times)The cutters (I had to order more) and spacers can be not fun as they don't always just fit in right and have to maybe file or sand them lightly for easier fit. You have to mirror each side of the cutter spaces, except facing away different directions. I have it set and probably won't change. If doing another type on a guitar, use the fly cutter and just grind them to what want. Don't let this deter your getting one. Like said once setup right, is extremely good and clean cuts

Steve, here is another option but no more pricey than the Cochran. Micro Fence. Check with sprockett (Paul Davis) about his setup. Sylvan Wells also has the micro fence. We had a good discussion about rosette cutters a while back that you might want to look through. Rosette Cutter Advice

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

[QUOTE=Don A] Steve, here is another option but no more pricey than the Cochran. Micro Fence. Check with sprockett (Paul Davis) about his setup. Sylvan Wells also has the micro fence. We had a good discussion about rosette cutters a while back that you might want to look through. Rosette Cutter Advice[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info. I checked it out (microfence) and it seems to do about the same thing as The Bishop Cochran base and the LMI base but with perhaps more versatility. The only base I have really ruled out at this point is the Stew-Mac base because it doesn't have a micro-adjust capability. At this point, for what I need, the B/C or LMI bases would do the job. The one thing in favor of the LMI base is the visibility with the clear base but on the other hand, the B/C base looks, frankly, sturdier and would last longer. Hmmm... decisions, decisions...

Thanks, Steve Brown

steve

yes. the cochran bases are built like a proverbial truck. the extra mass make for a very stable routing platform and reduces vibration.

[QUOTE=crazymanmichael] steve

yes. the cochran bases are built like a proverbial truck. the extra mass make for a very stable routing platform and reduces vibration. [/QUOTE]

So it's worth the extra $$? I wouldn't belabor the point except that I am in the mode of buying a lot of tools (as well as wood, shop refinements etc) and even though the majority aren't too bad, this is a fairly major purchase by comparison and it comes down, as always, to, "Do I spend the money here or here?"

Thanks for the input. I think you've convinced my brain what my heart saw all along!

Regards, Steve Brown

I have the base for the PC 310. It is one of my "prized tools". Worth every penny.

I am also considering buying one for the dremel as well... I am not a big fan of the dremel, but if anything is going to make one cut a good rosette is is a cochran base.

I think the micro fence looks good too, but I have first hand experience with the cochran products and I will swear you will not be disappointed.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

[QUOTE=Brock Poling]
I have the base for the PC 310. It is one of my "prized tools". Worth every penny.

I am also considering buying one for the dremel as well... I am not a big fan of the dremel, but if anything is going to make one cut a good rosette is is a cochran base.

I think the micro fence looks good too, but I have first hand experience with the cochran products and I will swear you will not be disappointed.

[/QUOTE]

Thanks Brock, I'm going to order one as soon as I have my shopping list prepared

Regards, Steve

brock

if you do go for the small cochran base, think about the b&d model rather than the dremel. i've had difficulties with the current model dremels. the rubber mounted bearings can allow play, and your channels end up wider than intended.

as i said above, i've read that the b&d bearings are much better and it is about twice as powerful as the drem.


i want to ge the 310 base, which wasn't out when i bought my dremel model, but may just buy a clamp plate for the b&d and convert in the interim.

I just saw a post somewhere that said they ruined a B&D and B&D said it wasn't for making guitars with. Otoh, I just ruined an almost new dremel gasket matching the intake on my car, and it barely got hot. Second dud dremel out of the 4 I've owned in my lifetime. So I'm thinking something that works with a laminate trimmer is in my future, although as a machinist and engineer, I may make my own base.

I've never seen a PC 310 in person. Is it significantly larger than the standard laminate trimmer?

The micro-fence circle cutter gives 6" as smallest diameter. Am I missing something?

[QUOTE=EricKeller] I just saw a post somewhere that said they ruined a B&D and B&D said it wasn't for making guitars with. Otoh, I just ruined an almost new dremel gasket matching the intake on my car, and it barely got hot. Second dud dremel out of the 4 I've owned in my lifetime. So I'm thinking something that works with a laminate trimmer is in my future, although as a machinist and engineer, I may make my own base.

I've never seen a PC 310 in person. Is it significantly larger than the standard laminate trimmer?[/QUOTE]

Interesting. I have a problem locally though. The only thing sold in Toledo is the Dremel so it makes it difficult to see, feel and touch the others. I think I may check on line for the various models supported by the Cochran base.

BTW, Dremel is now giving a 5 year limited warranty on the #395. I do find it difficult to understand how B&D or Dremel can make the case about the suitability of their tool for a given task. They sell attachments specifically for grout removal! If there is a more dirty, demanding, SLOW task, I've yet to see it. Talk about running the thing for hours on end!

Regards, Steve Brown

[QUOTE=crazymanmichael] brock

if you do go for the small cochran base, think about the b&d model rather than the dremel. i've had difficulties with the current model dremels. the rubber mounted bearings can allow play, and your channels end up wider than intended.

as i said above, i've read that the b&d bearings are much better and it is about twice as powerful as the drem.


i want to ge the 310 base, which wasn't out when i bought my dremel model, but may just buy a clamp plate for the b&d and convert in the interim.[/QUOTE]


That is a good tip. Thanks.

One note about the 310 base. It won't close up small enough to cut every size rosette. I bought this more as a router fence, and it happens to cut really awesome circles, but it can't handle all jobs.

That is why I am also considering one of the smaller ones for the moto tools.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

It is true that the BC base for the 310 will not cut any closer than about a 4 1/2" circle which, for me, ruled it out for rosette cutting. I have one and use it with many of my jigs since it is heavy and very stable. However, for rosettes it seems to me that what you want is the ability to very precisely micro-adjust its' settings. Neither LMI's nor BC's will do that. That is why I ultimately made a plexiglass base to hold the Micro Fence with a PC 310. Mine as built will cut a 3 5/8" circle and up. I could probably have built it to cut 3 1/2" and up but, I am a steel string builder and would never need that capability. I love the fact that you can use a dial caliper to measure your rosette. Then start with a smaller router bit. Cut a circle, measure the router bit with a dial caliper, and, then dial in the exact thousandths to the cut. Make the cut and the fit will be perfect. You cannot accomplish that with any other adjustable rosette cutter that I know of.

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Sylvan
http://www.wellsguitars.com

steve

i think if you check your local home depot or similar you should be able to find the b&d. it also wasn't an available item when i got my cochran so i was limited to the dremel. i know that in looking at it when it first came out i was impressed with its feel and heft in my hand.

while i take sylvan's point about dialing in circle settings, which is obviously easier than using the caliper to set up the cochran base, if you are constrained by a budget, the fact that the cochran is a great inlay router base is something to be considered.crazymanmichael38454.5546990741

sylvan

thanks for the info on the larger cochran base.

i take your point about being able to dial in settings with the micro fence. while the cockran is quite precise in its adjustment, you still have to use the caliper for for all setting up.

in looking at the micro fence info on line i found their explanation of the interelationship of their various components confusing.

exactly which of their offerings did you use to make your setup?crazymanmichael38454.5515162037

I have the LMI one. I have a few beefs with it.

First, vibrations seem to shake the adjustments loose. I've had it go awry on me several times.

Second, the acryic base holding the pin cracked at one of the screws which hold it to the metal rods. I've super glued it, but I figure it is just a matter of time the other one cracks.

As it is right now I use pliers to try to tigthen everything down enough so nothing shifts.

To adjust the cirle size you really need to take the base off of the soundboard, since the adjustment screws are so close to the board.

Finally, the base is not perfectly flat. You can rock the thing a bit.

I haven't used the others, so I can't compare, but I have found myself cursing this base more and more.

[QUOTE=crazymanmichael] steve

i think if you check your local home depot or similar you should be able to find the b&d. it also wasn't an available item when i got my cochran so i was limited to the dremel. i know that in looking at it when it first came out i was impressed with its feel and heft in my hand.

while i take sylvan's point about dialing in circle settings, which is obviously easier than using the caliper to set up the cochran base, if you are constrained by a budget, the fact that the cochran is a great inlay router base is something to be considered.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. Does the B&D have a model number or is there only one available?

Steve Brown

[QUOTE=rlabbe] I have the LMI one. I have a few beefs with it.

First, vibrations seem to shake the adjustments loose. I've had it go awry on me several times.

Second, the acryic base holding the pin cracked at one of the screws which hold it to the metal rods. I've super glued it, but I figure it is just a matter of time the other one cracks.

As it is right now I use pliers to try to tigthen everything down enough so nothing shifts.

To adjust the cirle size you really need to take the base off of the soundboard, since the adjustment screws are so close to the board.

Finally, the base is not perfectly flat. You can rock the thing a bit.

I haven't used the others, so I can't compare, but I have found myself cursing this base more and more.

[/QUOTE]

Ya know... the issue with strength was what concerned me. I'm going to see if the Cochran base can be used with the B&D. Thanks for the info!

Steve Brown

Michael -
You need the basic micro fence edge guide that will fit your laminate trimmer. Mine is the PC 310. Then you need Micro Fence's small circle cutter. In addition to the part that allows you to insert a 1/4" rod into a hole in your top, his circle cutter has two posts which are held to his base with screws. You need to remove those posts AND use them on your homemade acrylic base. You will have to raise them up to get the circle cutter level with the base. Here is a photo of mine. Measure carefully. You can get as small as 3 1/2" diameter circle with a PC 310. It is really a hot setup.

Sylvan38454.6961226852

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Sylvan
http://www.wellsguitars.com

I went to micro fence's web site and this is what you need to make what my picture shows:
The basic micro fence for your router $179.95
Sub base assembly (you only need the posts) $29.95
Center Bar & Outboard levelers (you only need the center bar) $39.95.
I also sent Micro Fence an e-mail with my photo. Maybe you can talk them into selling you just the components you need i.e., the micro fence system, posts, and center bar.

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Sylvan
http://www.wellsguitars.com

sylvan

thanks for the info.

having to buy the several components is a pain.

i've had my 310 for 5 or years so going that route is "ONLY" about $200 for me. for someone starting from scratch it is about $400! ouch, that hurts!